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Sorry this is sooooo incredibly l-o--n---g!

 
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mama2frecklesnapache



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 5
Location: California near Death Valley

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:42 am    Post subject: Sorry this is sooooo incredibly l-o--n---g! Reply with quote

First I'd like to start by introducing myself. My name is Melanie,
and I have lived in California (in the desert, about an hour from
Death Valley) for about 6 months. As some of you may know, it's been
an extreamly rainy year here. This is an extreamly long post, the
last couple of paragraphs are basically the most important.

On April 11 my husband & I adopted a puppy in Bakersfield, CA. He
was aproximately 2 months, an Australian Shepard Mix. I remember him
sneezing the day after we got him...only a couple times...but when we
took him to the vet for the free exam he came with, I mentioned it
anyway. The vet didn't even address this, so I assumed it was
nothing.

A couple days later Apache had some serious discharge, thick, green &
icky, around his nose. I figured it was related to the sneezing, and
called the vet, and because of the situation with the previous vet,
who was a "relief vet" not doing his job, they had Apache seen free
of charge. Distemper was a possibility, but more than likely it was
an upper respitory infection, maybe kennel cough. He was put on
antibiotics and began to improve.

Once he was off the meds for a couple days, it came back, so back to
the vet we went. The biggest change this time was the bags under his eyes, which I thought were from no resting/sleeping because of the coughing. Little did I know they were actually his eyes which are inflames & swollen eyelids with fluid. She said the possibility for distemper was still
there, more likely now that the antibiotic for kennel cough didn't
work, but that it could be that he had it very bad & needed another
round of the meds. So she set us up with 14 days worth rather than 7
this time.

This time he did not improve as much, but did not seem as sick
either, so we picked up the second weeks worth. The day he would
start on the 2nd week of meds, I thought something was wrong. I had
no idea if he was breathing really "weird" or just differently, but I
decided he needed to be seen right away.

I called in the morning & was given an afternoon appointment with a
different vet than we'd seen the past 2 times because the other one
was out. I had a horrible feeling, and my husband was away over
night on business, so my friend went with me. The minute the vet
looked at him, she said this dog is in serious trouble...she listened
to his lungs, and said he had very bad pneumonia, and she didn't
think he would make it. She suggested an Xray to confirm to me that
putting him down was the right thing.

I called my husband to come home, had my 2 minute crying fit outside
& came back in. By that time my friend had chewed out the vet for
the way she was acting. Suddenly there were options other than
putting him down.

We did the Xrays, and she showed me that his lungs were like sponges,
and he was having extream difficulty breathing. She said normal reps
for a puppy sleeping is 20, his were 70! She suggested diuretics and
fluids, and a recheck in 4 days. She also threw "Valley Fever" out
there. Not being from this area, I had TONS of questions. We didn't
go into great detail because she believes it's distemper and that we
will be putting him down at our next visit.

It was very hard getting the fluids into him, because he is still
drinking & eating on his own, so he's not enjoying being forced. I
called to ask about an IV, and they refused! The vet didn't even
take the time to call me herself, she had the receptionist call me!
And then when I had more questions, I asked for the vet to call me
back, and the receptionist tried to get the answers from my vet again
and called me back. She said that they would show my husband and I
how to do home fluid therapy, but I could not bring him because he is
contageous and could infect the other animals. WELL I'M SORRY, BUT
THAT'S LIKE SAYING A SICK PERSON CANNOT GO TO THE ER BECAUSE THEY
WILL INFECT THE OTHER PEOPLE THERE!

So we are getting the fluids into him...water...chicken broth...some
chicken and regular food to eat as well. His breathing is down in
the 40-50 range after just 48 hours on the diuretic, a b12 complex,
and still on the antibiotic. Don't know why, but since we were told
to finish it & already have it, why not?

The more I read about Valley Fever, the more CONVINCED I am that he
has it! The test is $150 and takes one week to get the results. Is
this common, or do I need to find somewhere else to take him? I
already want to because I feel that these vets got their degrees out
of a cracker jack box, but because they have seen them from the
beginning and can compare him from now to then & have the charts &
all, I sort of want him to keep seeing the same ones. Also, I'd like
to get him on the meds for this BEFORE we get the results back,
because it takes 7 days, that's another 7 days he's sick, it's
already been almost a month. His current symptoms are: the runny
nose, difficulty breathing, the flooded lungs, fluid around the
outside of the lungs as well, still eating some but is skin and
bones, sleeps or lays all the time, but will get up to attempt to go
to the door to go outside, still seeks us out in the house but just
flops on a comfy spot such as pillow or blanket when he gets to his
destination.

At this time I can't think of anything else to add...basically I just
need some help/advice on what to do with this poor thing...Thanks for
any and all help.
_________________
*:.(`v).:*: Melanie :*:.(`v).:*
Mommy to Cat, Freckles, 4 years old
Apache, Puppy, 3 months old
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Sheila



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 240
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Melanie this sounds a little like deja vu to me with my little beagle Jennie. When I adopted her she had the same symptoms your Apache has. At 12 weeks she started antibiotics for what was dx as Kennel Cough, but by the end of the 3rd round and 2nd month of treatment all my vet could say was he wished he could just go in and suck out the fluid. She now had full-blown pneumonia and he was at a loss.

BUT he NEVER told me to put the dog down!!! Find another vet. They are supposed to transfer records when asked by another vet. You didn't mention any CBC results, regular bloodwork, white blood cell count. This is an important profile, needs to be done.

VF is funny. More not known about it than known. Runny nose is not necessarily consistant with vf, although you never know how it shows up. But it sounds more like severe kennel cough to me. Yes, get the tests for vf. What saved my Jennie at that time (she didn't have vf then) was my herbal cough/lung formulas which I gave her every hour along with 500ppm atomic colloidal silver in very high doses for little beagle. If I thought it might have been vf I would have given her Oregano Oil also, which certainly couldn't hurt even if it's not vf.

Don't know how you feel about alternatives, but they have saved me many times when traditional medicine failed. If you want to do something while waiting for the test results, and you are of a mind to do so, please check out my website and click to the protocol page. The top recipes were created originally for Jennie's pneumonia.

Don't let any vet tell you to put a dog down without all the tests. Not all vets are good, there are some real horror stories out there. I am up to my third clinic locally, and still go back to my original vet for the vf tests even though he is quite a distance. Best of luck. Hugs and bellyrubs.
Sheila
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mama2frecklesnapache



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 5
Location: California near Death Valley

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 2:39 pm    Post subject: :-( Reply with quote

I did check out your website, and the page about the herbal stuff...I am kind of at a lost, it's all over whelming to me right now. I guess if I could ask just one questions, what combo of those should I get him on right away, and where do I get them? I've never heard of most of them, but I have until Tuesday afternoon to make a little more progress with him. I have to say I read your quotes and commandments...I was only crying a little until commandment number 10...I think if he could talk that would be exactally what he'd say to me right now because he looks so awful...skin & bones...breathing so heavy, up to 4 times what he should be sometimes...swollen eyes...I sometimes feel like he's looking at me saying mommy help me. I don't want to give up on him, but at the same time I feel like that's what he wants. But then he will go drink or eat on his own, or go to the door to go out, and I know he wouldn't be doing those things if he'd given up. I am just so beside myself between the heart break and confusion. I appreciate all the help! -Mel & Apache
_________________
*:.(`v).:*: Melanie :*:.(`v).:*
Mommy to Cat, Freckles, 4 years old
Apache, Puppy, 3 months old
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Sheila



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 240
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I know he wouldn't be doing those things if he'd given up."
You have the key right here Mel. They told me Jennie would die because "beagles aren't fighters." Jennie is now the alpha dog of 8, all bigger! She was a fighter right by my side.

Do you have a health food store you can get to? Copy down the list of ingredients in my herbal cough formulas. Take that to the health food store and see if they have any liquid formula anything like it. Probably they have some kind of echinacea liquid combos. Pleurisy root is important and so is elecampane, but they are hard to find in regular health food stores. Do the best you can with this one. I make my own.

Get some Oregano oil in a liquid if possible. They usually sell an essential oil. Spread some individual drops on wax paper and freeze them. Then put one in some cream cheese, peanut butter, whatever Apache likes. I used plain canned food, puppy food. Give him 5 of these spread out through the day. Now I use capsules and shove them down her throat, but that's hard at Apache's age.

Also get the Olive Leaf extract, in a liquid if they have it, or capsules if you must. Just keep giving this to him, all day long. This one will really help if it is truly just pneumonia. This one is important. If you get nothing else get this one and mega-dose that poor kid. Every hour.

And last, if they have "atomic" colloidal silver, which would be 250 or preferably 500ppm (parts per million), get that too. Give him 4 droppers every few hours. If all they have is the ionic silver at 10-25ppm, go ahead and get a small bottle. He can have only 1 tsp of this kind per day. Not enough to do what we want, but helpful.

Will this help immediately? Don't know. Jennie was sick another 6 weeks before she had what we call a "healing crisis." One day she seemed so much sicker, I thought she would die that day. I sat with her in my arms all day, kept giving her droppers of anything, crying and crying. The next day she was better. Really better. Another 2 weeks and it was over. There aren't usually miracle overnight cures.

The decision to work with Apache is yours, not your vets. If you have a firm, documented diagnosis of Distemper or Parvo, well, that's one thing. Valley Fever is not a reason to put this poor baby down, at least not without trying, and neither is pneumonia. At least not to me. My vets pretty much gave up when I took over. And these were the ones I like!

It's hard to do what I did for her, but it saved her life. Now I have done it again with the valley fever. They had me set up with a surgeon's appt to have her lung removed. I cancelled the appt and got to work with the formulas you saw on my site. Jennie's lung is now completely filled with air and you'd never know it was what my vet called "dead." Not. They still shake their heads at it!

Please keep me posted. Let me know how I can help. I pray for your strength. The rest will follow.
Sheila
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mama2frecklesnapache



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 5
Location: California near Death Valley

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject: dosage questions... Reply with quote

Oregano Oil-what size drops do I freeze? I'm guessing something like 1/2 tsp maybe?

Olive Leave-how much every hour?

"Atomic" Colloidal Silver what size droppers are we talking. We're using a 1 ml and a 10 ml...big difference lol...and does the dosage change depending on if it's 250 ppm or 500 ppm?

I have the Ionic Silver on the list as a sub...I understood that one though lol...

There is a health place next to where I work out, only been in there once or twice with my friend, and I wasn't the one working. If there's no luck there, I will see if I can find something online, or have my friend look, she lives in a bigger city might have a better store there and she can over night them to me.

Thank you once again for all your help. The Good Boy has taken his diuretic pill, his powder-fied 1/4 tablet of B12 complex, some water, hand fed food and then ate it on his own once he got the chicken taste in his mouth. My friend has been cooking big batches of chicken brother...cooking the whole chicken til it falls off the bone...she's splitting it between her dog & my baby, for her dog just because she loves it, and even between the two of them, they can't eat it all before it starts to get old.

First thing on the agenda tomorrow is the call to Phoenix & hopefully get the referal to somewhere near here...then cancel the other vet appt & ask for all his records. Then I will head to the store & look for these "meds." It feels so good to know I have a support system. I'm just sorry all you nice people have had to go through this.

Good night & God Bless Yous ALL!
_________________
*:.(`v).:*: Melanie :*:.(`v).:*
Mommy to Cat, Freckles, 4 years old
Apache, Puppy, 3 months old
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JB



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Central California

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get that puppy to a different vet first thing in the morning!!! It sounds like the one you have doesn't like her job and should quit her practice.

Tell the new vet about your suspicions about VF and demand that your dog be tested for neg. or pos. right away...it shouldn't take 2 weeks to get that kind of result back.

Sorry./.... Evil or Very Mad reading your post and the way you and your puppy are being treated made me angry, because I've had it with doctors who act that way toward humans. I can't stand the thought of a vet being so calloused toward a helpless puppy!!! Mad

Don't give up on him! Sounds like he's a fighter. You and your little buddy will be in my bedtime prayers tonight.

Take care.
-JB- Cool
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Sheila



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 240
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoping this a good morning for you and Apache Mel! Get what you can from the hfs and let me know what you ended up with and I will post some recommendations for the products you have.

Did you get a vet referral from the AZ doctors? Please let us know who you will take him to now. A good, knowledgeable vet is sooooo important. The 24 hr dx pos or neg is key now, as the right meds could really make a quick difference.

We all look forward to hearing how you're doing. And take care of yourself!!! Take some extra B vitamins if you have some, good for your nervous system, especially Pantothenic Acid, B5.
Sheila
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mama2frecklesnapache



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 5
Location: California near Death Valley

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with Dr. Clark (who I was refered to) this morning. He said based on what I told him, his guess would be for distemper as well. He didn't have an exact reccomendation for a vet, but gave me some tips, and we will be seeing someone else, totally different office even, on Thursday. At this time the vet is going to advise us on if the test for VF would be a good call, but said he would do it if we wanted, even if he thought it wasn't VF, based on our choice. Unfortunately, this is not concidered an emergency, because I had already said he was doing better than last Thursday. She said it would be in our benefit to let the meds he's already been given work for a week and then be checked again & do the blood work then. So we will take it, and if she can work us in sooner she will.

Dr. Clark was wonderful, he explained a lot of things to me about VF & Distemper, the diferences, and why he thought it was distemper over VF. Now that someone has taken the time to explain things to me, they make much more sense. He said within a few weeks I will see significant deterioration, as far as tremors, seizures, etc and I will want to have him put down prior to that because it's painful on both the pup and us. That is *if* it's distemper.

I'm still going to call some other vets in the area that may have treated other puppies similar to this, so maybe they can say well we know that in several of these cases it was deffinately distemper, or whatever.

So again, thank you so much. This has really helped me, although it wasn't exactally what I wanted to hear.

Mel

PS-Apache is doing better today, breathing is down into the 40s (down from 70s) and of course normal is 20ish so I'm hoping by his new appt on Thur. he will be nearly better as far as that part goes. He's been actually SLEEPING, not just trying to rest because he's not comfortable, ALL MORNING...my husband and I BOTH think we saw a tail wag, too...
_________________
*:.(`v).:*: Melanie :*:.(`v).:*
Mommy to Cat, Freckles, 4 years old
Apache, Puppy, 3 months old
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Sheila



Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 240
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: From Melanie Reply with quote

I bear the sad tidings that little Apache did indeed have distemper and crossed to the Rainbow Bridge this morning. After what seemed a better day he lost control of his body functions this morning, with the classic drool of a distemper seizure.

Mel asked me to thank everyone here for the wonderful support she received last week. My heart weeps for her.
Sheila
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mama2frecklesnapache



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 5
Location: California near Death Valley

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to stop by and say thank you for all the help & support I received here. I'm not sure how well I'm dealing with this...hard to believe what an impact this little guy had on me! It's very hard to talk about, write about, etc but I thought it was time to give my thanks. I had been doing good, no more crying in the morning and at bed time (these were "high maintenance" times for him & it really felt like we were forgetting to do something, which we were missing giving his meds) but being home without him & his stuff hurts and leaving and then coming home to him not being here hurts, too. But anyway, I had been doing good with that until my husband came home today and handed me a paper, the paper from the vet with euth. and care of deceased on it, and that was it back to sobbing for about 30 minutes. I just didn't know it was actually going to physically make me hurt & make me ill. But time will heal, and of course I don't want another one at this point, but I hope someday I will feel safe to get one without feeling like I'm replacing Apache or feeling afraid to bond with him. I've learned a lot, and if nothing else I could diagnose distemper OR Valley Fever from a mile away lol. And we are looking into making donations to various people both for canines and felines because I'm a big cat person also. I do have a cat, a wonderful trooper he was through all the lack of attention and then not leaving my side when I was crying. I realized no one I've come in contact with lately even knows about him (or hubby's reptiles for that matter!) But once again, thank you so much for all you've done. -Mel
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